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Post by The Folks @ TanneryWhistle.com on Nov 9, 2003 12:49:36 GMT -5
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Well, I just watched "Spider." Does anyone know this film? To begin with, it is not a horror film - at least, not in in conventional sense of that term. This is a film by Chronenburg, the guy that made a series of very strange films over a decade ago, like "Scanners"....or what is the one about people who love car wrecks??? Anyway, "Spider" is based on a novel by Patrick McGrath, an English author who is definitely not a "conventional writer." I'm doing a strange reversal now. I'm reading the novel, TEXTSpiderTEXT after seeing the film. Some helpful advice might be in order for seeing this film: Don't believe everything you see. Another way to put it might be, dont trust the protagonist. This was an unusual experience for me since, like most movie goers, I have been conditioned to accept the reality of the film. Only gradually did I come to the realization that what I was seeing was the world as Spider sees it, and Spider is schizoid. I guess there are clues that I should have paid more attention to. Where has Spider been? He says he has been "in Canada." He is certainly quirky enough as he wanders about picking up litter (he is a pack-rat) and complaining about smelling gas. He stays in a rooming house that is not a conventional rooming house. Spider's companions are also a quirky, paranoid bunch and everybody watches the "landlady" with suspicion and fear. I finally realized that this was some kind of half-way house....one of those places where people stay until they determine if they are ready to go back out into the world. Spider got his name from his childhood fascination for spiders and their webs and it gradually becomes apparent that the webs resemble the traps that Spider finds around him. There are also the traps that he builds to entrap others....
Spider is "rediscovering" his childhood since he is presently living in the same neighborhood he knew as a child. In fact, he can walk past the house where he used to live, as well as the tavern where his father used to spend a lot of time. Then, there are the "allotments," a place where the neighbors used to maintain gardens, and Spider seems to have a particular fascination for an old potato patch near the little shack where his father kept his garden tools. It is also the place where Spider thinks his father killed his mother and buried her in the potato patch......
Has anyone seen this film?
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Neal
Greenhorn
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Post by Neal on Nov 9, 2003 14:42:02 GMT -5
I normally don't use little icons, but here I found the thumbs up for Spider. I really loved this little film. There are some subtle clues that point one way and another. Anyone who has not seen the film and plans to might want to stop reading here. Spider walks through his memories, as real as they are to him, so he (as an adult) is often pictured in the scenes with his childhood self and family. The scenes where his childhood self is also we might assume are things he actually witnessed, the flashback scenes without the child are the things he "figured out." After all, he wasn't there so he had no way of knowing about these incidents. What makes it hard to figure out is that most movies violate these kinds of basic point of view rules all the time. There are a few other little things--Miranda Richardson is absolutely incredible and I never would have realized that she played both the mother and the bar slut except for one thing. The way gabrielle Byrne pushes the mother against the garden wall (witnessed by Spider from his window) is exactly duplicated with Gabrielle Byrne and the other woman under the bridge, so the first incident kind of supplied a model for Spider's imagination. Also, it was the idealized mother who told Spider the story of how the mother spider abandons her babies. Still, I never put it together until the end, right when Spider puts it together himself. The film is a tricky puzzle.
I really appreciate Cronenburg's willingness to take risks, and determination to stick with rich material even if it costs him. I once wrote a term paper on "Dead Ringers," which was a popular film compared to the art-house films he's making now. I liked "Crash" a lot, too, but I'm not sure I understood it. I wasn't sure if we were supposed to take it literally or if the car crashes were metaphoric of relationships somehow.
Have you seen that one?
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Post by The Folks @ TanneryWhistle.com on Nov 9, 2003 14:55:05 GMT -5
Yeah, I saw "Crash" and I still worry about it. I especially enjoyed the kinky combination of sex and scars/wounds. Which reminds me. There is an interview on Suicide Girls with both Chronenburg and Gaiman. I'm going back and stroll through the posts again, taking my time until I find the interviews...the same way I used to look for the "meaningful articles" in Playbody some twenty years ago.. which reminds me of yet another film that I have not seen and is being discussed on Suicide Girls. What do you know about "In My Skin"  ? And, Lo! Mary just brought me Gaiman's book for children, "The Wolves in the Wall." Have you heard any talk about the possibility of a film based on "American Gods"?? And now, back to "Spider," which I think we can talk about for weeks. What about the bowl of eels that the "wicked mother" serves to Spider and his father? I don't know if that scene is duplicated in the book or not, since I am still reading it. Mary has "Monster Road" which really freaked her out. She has watched it three times and probably has a lot of questions. Since it isn't captioned, I missed a lot. Like, I didn't realize that the father has Alzhimers until Mary told me. What do you make of the obsession with living to be 254 years old? Gary |
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Neal
Greenhorn
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Post by Neal on Nov 9, 2003 15:16:53 GMT -5
The eels! I love that little look of delight that Byrne gives his son when the eels are served.
Yeah, the father's condition becomes important in that he is constantly marveling at the world-clouds, rainbows, trees-and muttering "Who made that? Can you tell me who made that?" (By the way, he's been a confirmed atheist all his life) I don't know what it means but it resonates with Bruce being the architect of his world of clay, which he can control and shape, unlike the real world which he can just barely cope with. Bruce (the son) has a health fixation which has severly compromised his health. I guess there's some irony (on the filmmaker's part) in the remark about the guy living 254 years, but also something wonderful about the reality that Bruce has created for himself. As opposed to, say my reality, which is a little vague and wispy in its personal aspects, Bruce's reality is really stylized and vibrant and palpable. You can in fact step into it, and I have. He may well live to be 254. Only to the rest of us it'll look like 74.
Hopefully if they get distribution they'll have a closed caption version. Let me know what Mary says.
Neal
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Post by The Folks @ TanneryWhistle.com on Nov 9, 2003 17:53:40 GMT -5
About Neil Gaiman. Did you know that that guy has written a film script for "The Formata" this incredible porn-novel about a fellow who can stop time and undress women! It is one of my favorite novels, and I rarely find anyone that I can discuss it with. It is by a guy named Davenport who does some astonishing books. One takes place on an escalator and begins and ends there...one trip for the whole book. But "the Furmata" is pure fantasy. In all of the world of possibilities, the only specific use he can find for his power is to undress women. He begins with his teacher in the third grade and manages to undress her while she is writing on the blackboard. Of course, he has to put everything back on before he can restart time. One of my favorite esisodes is where he freezes traffic on the interstate, strolls over to the car in the next lane, removes a cassette from a woman's tape player, walks down the interstate to a shopping mall, gets a tape recorder leaving money on the cash register (he is totally honest), walks back to the halted cars, makes a porno-tape and substitutes it for the one that he removed from the tape player, gets in his own car and restarts time. He follows the woman as she listens to the porno-tape....Anyway, Gaiman mentions the book and his script in the interview on Suicide Girls.
I'm getting hyped about Gaiman again. He has a movie that will be out soon based on one of his books, maybe "Smoke and Mirrors." You would be interested in what he says about "Neverworld." I think I'll dig out my old stock of Gaiman and start reading again. He said that it would be impossible to make a movie out of "American Gods" unless they threw half of it away, or made it into a series.
But, about "Spider"......There is a website. I haven't visited it, but I intend to do so. What do you know about "journals" on the internet? This may be the solution to what I have been looking for. If you join Suicide Girls, you can keep a journal on line which sounds very much like what I have wanted to do with this website. Gaiman also has a website and a journal. He said that it is read by thousands of folks...
Gary
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Neal
Greenhorn
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Post by Neal on Nov 10, 2003 20:51:37 GMT -5
Yeah, the Spider web site is really nice. I don't know a lot about Gaiman, except I have seen the Sandman comics around...sorry, what do they call them? Is Graphic Novels right? Comics makes you think of Richie Rich and Caspar, so that doesn't seem right anymore. I know a brilliant man named John Kessel (author of Good News from Outer Space, Corrupting Doctor Nice and some others). He showed me a graphic version of Moby Dick which was really astounding. I took an interest in the form after that,but never really had the money for them. I don't know why I started talking about comics, but I used to collect a few titles. I dropped out of college for a little while in Greensboro and began to work a lot in a little deli bar. I spent all my extra money on used books and used comics, made a little pilgrimage on foot downtown every Friday afternoon. I still have some Mr. X, Grendel, and Warlock 5.
Neal
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Neal
Greenhorn
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Post by Neal on Nov 10, 2003 20:56:20 GMT -5
By the way, content is censored, so yes that was
Moby Dick
by Herman Melville.
And the other day, in discussing Spider, I did write
bar slut.
(rhymes with hut).
Please excuse my foul, foul mouth, but I just have to see what happens when you say
shit
asshole
fuck
turd
nipple
See if you can guess what they are!
Neal
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Neal
Greenhorn
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Post by Neal on Nov 10, 2003 20:58:40 GMT -5
That was more crude and less fun than I hoped.
Sorry, everybody!
Neal
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Post by The Folks @ TanneryWhistle.com on Nov 10, 2003 21:44:05 GMT -5
Well, I enjoyed it anyway. Back in the dark ages, I used to belong to discussion groups that were actually monitored by AOL and somebody was always getting kicked off our board. There were spies, too. People who reported obscene language to AOL. I assume that is a thing of the past. If not, we will make history. About graphic novels....have you ever seen the graphic novel, "From Hell" that the Johnny Depp movie was based on? I think you would enjoy it. I liked the movie, but it bears little resemblance to Alan Moore's graphic novel which must be about 450 pages long. It is black and white, but is one of the most imaginative graphic novels I have ever seen. I say you would like it because it is drawn like scenes in a film. I remember one scene that is presented as seen through the bones of a sea-gull's carcasse on the beach! The murder scenes are rendered with a kind of chilling detachment that I loved. It has all of the theories about Jack, the Ripper including the one involving Queen Victoria's grandson. Did I tell you that Neil Gaiman did a film script for "The Fermata"?? He talks about it in that interview! I just saw "28 Days Later" which was fun, but didn't cause my heart to race, I'm afraid. Liked the scenes that reminded me of "On the Beach" with England's last surviving "uninfected" wandering through deserted villages, stores and countrysides. I found the "horror" scenes just so-so. What I do have that I am looking forward to is the documentary film, "Devil's Playground." Do you know about this??? Gary P. S. Have you ever seen the underground comic, "Biker Sluts" |
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Neal
Greenhorn
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Post by Neal on Nov 12, 2003 22:32:23 GMT -5
Actually I have one of the From Hell issues around somewhere and found it to be as good as you say. That one dealt a lot with the Freemasonry and some sort of three-faced diety they supposedly worshipped at the higher levels. Ever since then I have wanted to know more about the freemasonry, but I haven't gotten around to it. I've heard of a book called Inside The Freemasonry that is supposed to be good, but haven't caught it yet. Anyway, I never saw the other issues of From Hell, and never saw the movie. How well do they compare?
I'm disappointed that 28Days Later wasn't great, I was looking forward to it. That director is good with images-that baby on the ceiling in Trainspotting is one of the most unsettling things I've ever seen.
Neal
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Post by The Folks @ TanneryWhistle.com on Nov 12, 2003 23:25:15 GMT -5
Well, the way I remember it, "From Hell" ran in a magazine called Taboo.
There must have been 15 installments, and finally all of them were combined in one opus called "From Hell." The two guys that made the movie were tempted to use the graphic novel as a storyboard, and a few times, they followed the story very closely, but they abandoned it before long and when they did, the movie sorta fell apart. it is still worth the trouble, but a better deal is the graphic novel...although I am definitely a Depp fan.
Gary
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Neal
Greenhorn
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Post by Neal on Nov 13, 2003 10:13:24 GMT -5
Actually, speaking of Depp and Polanski, there is a strange film they made together a few years ago, about a powerful book that can summon the devil or something like that. A very odd, slight film, but worth seeing. Depp is always pretty amazing. "Ed Wood" may be my favorite.
Neal
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Post by The Folks @ TanneryWhistle.com on Nov 13, 2003 10:28:03 GMT -5
Oh, yes. I saw that one. Can't think if the name of it, but it had lots of spooky atmosphere. Depp wore little wire-rimmed glasses and played the part of a book collector/appraiser. It was one of those wonderful books like the Necronomacon or some such....only six copies of it left in the world and Depp had to find them all. And speaking of Depp, there are parts of "The Headless Horseman" that are damed good!
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Neal
Greenhorn
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Post by Neal on Nov 13, 2003 19:39:39 GMT -5
That's true, I liked that one pretty well too. I've always liked the Necromonicon type stories. Another good use of that is The Evil Dead series. Did you ever see any of those?
Neal
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Post by The Folks @ TanneryWhistle.com on Nov 13, 2003 20:01:40 GMT -5
I'm not sure. I know there are some hardcore horror buffs on SG that are all hot and bothered about it. Regardless, I need to check it out again. Also, I just ordered "Chaos" which will be here tomorrow, so I can give you a report on it. I also located "Versus," but so far no one has heard of "Wild Zero" except those folks on SG.
Gary
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